To the highest bidder!!!

Tom Sanders · Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Posts: 5 Location: Florida

If Live transfer leads were available "on demand" meaning when you wanted them transferred with a proven "30%" closing rate , would you bid on the from an auction site?

Why?
Why not?

I would love to hear your thoughts on this!!

chow · Posted: Mon Oct 24, 2005 6:35 pm Post subject:

Never. No. Nada.

Buyer's are liars.

and Auctions...that is based on "Want's and Needs" and what you have to offer. If I can't touch it-can't send anyone else to touch it-then I don't buy it. I have a 100% buyer ranking on EBay, but... I have kept my really wide mouth shut on one deal-well over 10K.

I got every cent back-but-Leads are not a material object. They are commonly sold to many people through common sources.
Look at human reactions to phones, now internet pop ups.

people will "DIAL for Dollar's, or Surf for Money."

I just got done with a research project for an area of my side of a "city"

If you want to swim with brine-get ready for the crawdad's here!

Tom Sanders · Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Posts: 5 Location: Florida

Chow,

What would you consider a perfect lead then?
Thanks,
Tom

Haplo · Joined: 20 Jan 2005 Posts: 2422 Location: Springfield, IL

That, of course, would vary from person to person.

Perfect lead would be 'I know my credit, we've checked out title and had an inspection done and appraisal complete. We just need you to sign off on the deal.'

chow · Posted: Wed Oct 26, 2005 4:35 pm Post subject:

Haplo wrote: That, of course, would vary from person to person.

Perfect lead would be 'I know my credit, we've checked out title and had an inspection done and appraisal complete. We just need you to sign off on the deal.'

Haplo,

Honey, Sweetum's.

You're a tough customer! I thought I was a brick wall?

My perfect lead: That I might buy when I couldn't walk/drive , talk and print on my own, would be:

Someone who hasn't applied with more than a few banks or brokers in the last 30 days. They would also have a realistic value of the homes around them-like and same properties, and they were paying the bills-reasonably on time.

I can trip around my own back yard and find a deal or two a month for nearly nothing. If you're in the business long enough, develop a base-and don't change employers unless you have to-People will always know your name-and how to find you!

I'm not a real strong advocate of buying leads. If people know I'm in the business, and they need a product, AND I know I will have to charge too much for-I give that lead to someone else, or let them figure it out on their own.

I will repeat this all day and night long: Every lead is a good lead, or Every lead is a bad lead.

Unless the party selling the leads can give some time and training to the people buying the leads-as to how they find the leads to begin with>>>>You're all going to blow smoke at each other!

That's just my humble opinion. I used to work for a large mortgage banker. The Telemarketing area thought they could sell anything. Problem was: We didn't have the investors to buy the loans that they made the target market questions out for. Otherwise, the left hand and right hand were not even connected to the same body. We would blast the telemarketing area for leads that we couldn't do, and they would produce investor's that would buy the loans-that we couldn't write.

Now-as a Loan Officer- that would make you feel really warm and fuzzy if the phone calls to gather leads were structured to client's you could never help? And you were supposed to pay for these?

Tom Sanders · Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Posts: 5 Location: Florida

Great response!! Let me ask you this.....Chow I know that you are not a fan of buying leads and justifiably so. But You have a lot of insight on this subject and I appreciate your opinions. Most "live" transfer companies that I have researched have told me that they avereage a close rate of 10%. If you are paying 800-150/lead that means that the client aquisition cost would be from 800-1500!!! Here is my question(s):

1) What happened to the other 90%?

2) Why do you think that they did not close?

3) What percentage of that number represents:
a) Limited number of programs
b) Shopping rates
c) Etc.

Thanks!!
Anyone else please share your insight!!!!

chow · Posted: Thu Oct 27, 2005 5:36 pm Post subject:

1) What happened to the other 90%?

The people who were called were not honest, or unaware of the real issues they faced with a refinance? Or, there was nothing there to refinance.

Even I have been called on the carpet over calling a lead, and the customer really feels that the home is worth $50,000 more than what is really worth. I still carried through with all of my interview questions, and then I was expected TO PAY for an appraisal myself, or make the customer pay for one-just in hopes that we could "CHURN" a loan.

I draw a few lines in the sand when it comes to spending my own money, and I'm usually a little more careful with my customer's money-and my employers money. So, I get beat up for not ordering an appraisal when I happen to know-it won't work? (I just sat there and watched the newies drive the boss into more expenses-because he was told these leads were good. Yeah-right!) My husband was really upset when I called him one day that I was going to go home and work for myself! At least I knew how to be honest, and not waste time and money!!!

2) Why do you think that they did not close?

see above.

3) What percentage of that number represents:
a) Limited number of programs

Not many people/brokers are limited but the true banks, who do not broker out some/most ot the paper-however-who you choose to market should be based on raising value areas.

b) Shopping rates (don't get me started!)

I have great rates! My rates are so low that after I drag you through 3 test closings, my rate will increase 1% every time you blink your eye!

If you really wanted to market a lead program-here is what you do.

Make the conusmer promise-they won't go and postitute themselves to every "Tom Dick and Jane" who calls them for an application. Find some dang good brokers, to work with in a test market area. Work together, and ask the consumer to also give all of you feed back on your marketing and closing skills, based on how effective you all worked together as a team, while working your own business. I think everyone could gleen a little information out of it, and the consumers would feel good about actually being part of the feed back!

Send me M&M's or some leads to work with you on, and give it a whirl?

Nothing ventured, Nothing gained.

Tom Sanders · Joined: 24 Oct 2005 Posts: 5 Location: Florida

Chow, you have hit the nail on the head!!!! That is exactly what I am doing. I am researching and developing a way for brokers to average 30%+ close rate on lead that they purchase. They will be Live "hot" transfers when you would want them. People have stated that I cannot reach that close rate but I dissagree. I want to be able to identify what sort of filtering requirements would be needed on my part that would ensure a high close rate such as 30%. I know that ther are factor such as salesmanship, rescoring, "shoppers" etc. What could I encorporate on my end which would maximize your return?

What would the value be then if the close rate was 30%?

The amount of time saved on hedging through the garbage will be diminished tremendously!

P.S You mentioned M&M's in your last response and while I was reading that was what I was eating LOL!!!!

Thanks for the insght!!

Anyone else have any suggestions egarding this matter?

chow · Posted: Fri Oct 28, 2005 9:21 pm Post subject:

What would the value be then if the close rate was 30%?

You have to do a test market. You can't expect anyone to pay you for closed leads, because that is a violation of "RESPA", or expecting payment for good and services-if they come to fruition. You can give them some test leads and go from there-but that would be a cost that you need to take into consideration.

With hardly any effort at all, I can find a few loans a month in hard money comercial fallout that I can make a dime or two on. Maybe you should venture that way? I certainly would explore a start up market effort in an area FEW Loan Officer's care to go!

If you are Residential leads, then 30% is a good return on the broker's investment, and you need to almost crawl into the broker's brain, and the consumer's brain at the same time. (This is a tired phone call or email to me. I usually just hang up, eat my lunch, hit the delete button.)

With everyone falling apart last week in the BK world, with the new laws- I do wish you "A LOT of SKILL!" :wink:

The amount of time saved on hedging through the garbage will be diminished tremendously!

Prove this "Hedging" concept you speak of. I'm all about edge, I used to pester people everyday to get DD and QC work done on closed loans so I could actually put them in a closed pool, and send it off to Wall Street.

I would be the best friend you needed when you wanted a hedge, and the first one to kick you over the edge when you didn't comply with what I HAD TO HAVE FOR A POOL to The Broother's, Or The Big bad Bere!

How about the amount of time digging through the "GARBAAGE"?

When you understand hedging, get back with me. I'm Indian and don't even go through Vegas with more than 20 bucks in my pocket!

Jsolochek · Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 4:28 am Post subject:

There are a few companies, for live call transfers, that will let you choose which days you would like to receive them on as well as the times.

In order to achieve a 30% or higher closing ratio you would have to be able to choose the LTV, FICO score, Property type, loan type and maybe a few additional filters.

If you choose to do subprime don't let these transfers try to convince you they are rate shopping. A person with less than perfect credit realy doesn't have the privelage of being able to rate shop. They are just looking for a broker that they can work with and that will work a little harder to help get them financed.

Haplo · Joined: 20 Jan 2005 Posts: 2422 Location: Springfield, IL

Quote: A person with less than perfect credit realy doesn't have the privelage of being able to rate shop.

I disagree. Usually these people are less likely because they don't know that they *can* rate shop. Because of this fact, they are generally falling prety to the predatory lenders we hear so much about. Keep in mind that it is not a 'privelidge' to get a decent deal.

J, I took out parts of your two posts that I considered 'advertisement' and please keep that in mind. We would prefer that posts keep people on-site, and that advertisements are limited to community members. (Please see the ad policy.)

Press1Marketing · Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 3:48 pm Post subject:

As regards "scheduling" live transfers, the tradeoff is between an ongoing steady volume source that does not pre-qualify people versus a slower, more random flow that does a call center interview first and then passes on the leads when and only when found. The very nature of a call center live transfer means that as (and when) worthwhile prospects are found and convinced to remain on the line, the call goes to you immediately, which means you cannot decide that next Tuesday night at 7:30 you want 8 live transfers. If the call center can't find and interview them, you're not going to get a ring on your phone.

The only systems that allow you to schedule inbound calls are VoIP Internet systems that send out a sufficient volume of recorded messages to ensure that you will have a specific quantity of inbound responses at a specific time and day. Yes, you can specify the kind of financing situation you want to attract in your recorded message, but you can't guarantee you will get exactly what you ask for since nobody has pre-screened these responders. One strong way of working these leads is to have your calls go to "screeners" before they get passed to your LO's. These screeners may have to work their way through a lot of wasted calls but in the end they may pass forward very workable leads that will convert.

Like all sales efforts, you need to play the numbers and call center live transfers are limited and expensive. The massive response you can get from an automated system can give you lots of numbers, but you need a method of filtering out the quality to achieve success.

Naturally, neither method will work if your LO's can't sell on the phone, so your people need to be trained to immediately take control of the call and move the process along. Live transfer prospects usually haven't had a long time to consider their options, so a good LO must take them by the hand and lead them down that yellow brick road to the enchanted land of conversion.

chow · Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 4:07 pm Post subject:

This is just my humble thoughts on this "screener" envision you have for us.

By the time I train a "Screener", I have basically trained a LO on the basics of Mortgage 101, and the 5 C's of what can make a loan work.

Now play into this, most states require anyone whor hires anyone to pay a base wage and be W-2'd if they are acting as a Loan agent in any way, shape or form. That requries us to also have them obtain a origination license in most states.

So.... by the time I find a person to take my squeeky clean calls, and rescrub them against the DNC list-just to remain safe. I have invested about 5K just to buy a lead, and have someone sit there to take the call while I go out and close what I already found, just by calling on people while driving around anyway.

I'm just paying the devil's advocate here, but nothing I have seen to date-will ever beat honest to goodness networking face to face. I actually get a little giggle going about how many lead companies have signed in here as of late. :wink:

I do wish your telemarketing people well, but it was well worn out before email spam. Problem you all have is

You have people that over promise and under deliver, and then charge too much for a lead. I have never paid for a lead in my life, and at 46 and 25 years in this industry-I won't start now! I attain my leads by just being me. I sit down, talk to people, I find out how I can help. If I can't do it, I assist them in finding help. I do follow up, and I have 3 very big black books of information on past loans, realtors and appraisers.

Press1Marketing · Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2005 11:07 pm Post subject:

Let me respond to your "humble" response with a "humble" response of my own.

I find it difficult to comprehend your philosophical rantings about the worthlessness of various forms of leads when you yourself gleefully admit that you have never purchased a lead, never worked a lead and never will work a lead. You have perhaps spent too much time at this Forum website and not enough time talking at length with some of the leaders of this industry. There are some companies out there wildly succeeding on a national level by either buying leads for their LO's, buying and then re-selling leads to their LO's or just encouraging the LO's to buy on their own. Leads, for better or worse, are the life blood of most of the national industry and they will continue to be so. Yes, a small operation in a local area can thrive by creating a network of referrals from real estate agents, but try implementing that system when you're working in multiple states. Are you going to get in your car and cruise around to meet with people face-to-face? Somehow I don't think so.

These days growth is an essential element in any dynamic industry and it's the companies that can manage growth that will endure and succeed. During the last two years I've had in-depth discussions with the managing officers and owners of at least 500 firms. Most are fairly sophisticated when it comes to understanding leads and how to use them. Many have set up their own inhouse call centers to work leads, both outbound and inbound. Some have internal company websites where they market leads to their branch offices. It's only the small sole practicioner who sits back and scoffs at leads because they don't have the foresight or capital to play the game with the big boys. This is fine for many, but for some it's just not enough.

Inbound call screeners don't give information. They take information. They serve the same kind of job function as a good telephone receptionist would. They quickly make sure the caller fits the profile and if so, they pass the information forward. If they don't, then the process ends there.

Automated VoIP Live Transfers are output by a lead company that must protect itself by scrubbing against the DNC lists. LO's don't get involved until the transfer takes place. They don't send out the call, they receive the call. As a matter of fact, very few companies using this system even use their name in the outbound message. It's not necessary. What's important is the criteria the message outlines. It's the lead company sending out the message and assuming the DNC liability, not the LO. Check the regs if you have doubts.

Chow, could I suggest that if you are going to respond to just about every post, then perhaps a more open and informed approach would serve the membership better. Members want guidance, not sarcasm. They want to understand and learn from the experiences of others, not from the viewpoints of those who have never tasted of the apple.

If any of you members want to discover what does or does not work, then pick up a phone and call the top executives in a few major firms and ask questions. You might be very surprised by the answers. It's the guys making the big money in this industry that should be pointing you in the right direction. Learn from their example and you'll prosper.

Haplo · Joined: 20 Jan 2005 Posts: 2422 Location: Springfield, IL

I'm not humble in any way shape or form. I'm arrogant, self centered, conceited, and full of myself.

Now that we've gotten that out of the way.

Quote: Yes, a small operation in a local area can thrive by creating a network of referrals from real estate agents, but try implementing that system when you're working in multiple states

I am actively receiving business from 8 different states, including the one that I live in. None of the others are neighboring states to my own, and they span the country coast to coast. I have used *some* leads but I prefer not to. I don't sell in that manner.

Quote: If any of you members want to discover what does or does not work, then pick up a phone and call the top executives in a few major firms and ask questions. You might be very surprised by the answers. It's the guys making the big money in this industry that should be pointing you in the right direction. Learn from their example and you'll prosper.

Excellent quote, but it's fairly misguided. Do you always want to be playing catch-up in your industry? Do you always want to be the guy who's #2? How about the most important part of sales in my opinion, which is that no two people sell the same?

Lead companies work for some people, and not for others. A lead generation company would *never* work for me. Quite simply because I don't sell in that manner. I have built up a network of people that send me business around the country simply by knowing who to talk to, and when to talk to. Many of them I have had the opportunity to meet in person, some I have not.

To profess that lead generation is the future is to forget that humans are social people and very frequently they will take the advice of a trusted friend over a random telephone call they received at dinner.

Quote: Chow, could I suggest that if you are going to respond to just about every post, then perhaps a more open and informed approach would serve the membership better.

Your opinion is noted, however please remember that Chow is a contributing member in many ways to the forums and has helped quite a few people with her knowledge both here, and out in the real world. Please don't assume that you understand 'the membership' having just recently joined us and only made a few posts here. This message board is a bit different in focus and scope than probably most that you have visited.

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